Curse

Turkey Baster · Feb 06, 2012, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Elementalist, Necromancer, Ritualist, or Assassin? Necromancer is usually conditional which means you need to target the hexed for or have them balled. Elementalist is alright. Assassin is frontline but still viable. Ritualist spirits seem like they lag and have issues, plus target what they want. I just don't enjoy Mesmers, Dervishes, or Monks (besides PvP). Rangers I don't see this besides Barrage even though I like them. Is a Earth Shaker Warrior more help then any of the first for professions listed above? This is most DPS as a human player in a 7H team

yitjuan · Feb 06, 2012, 04:20 AM // 04:20

With proper balling a Warrior.

Scott Ware · Feb 06, 2012, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Seems like you've eliminated everything but a War, so I guess I'm not really understanding the question.

OChunx · Feb 06, 2012, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Just between elementalist, necromancer, ritualist, and assassin, I would think that a minion bomber necromancer would have the most DPS in most PvE situations.

Minions act as a giant wall (great defense) while still blowing up using death nova, and combined with putrid bile, you're doing tons of 100+ armor ignoring AoE damage. Minions themselves add some damage too.

Ritualists in terms of combat mainly just use their spirits for support, doing pretty good single target damage and providing some added support effects (disenchantment, blinding). I think with a full 11 lvl 21 bone horrors tho, necro still does more single target damage.

Elementalists did recently get buffed, although to be honest, I think necro and ritualist are still much more useful, even if the ritualist doesn't outright do more damage.

Assassins seem like they would do the most DPS (especially with splinter weapon and death blossom) but are just too likely to be killed on the front line as well as providing few other defensive support for the team. Also, it might take some time to run, unless u shadowstep (minions take time to run-in too, but as a player minion master, that should pose less of a problem).

Overall, I would recommend necromancer for all around massive AoE damage and providing a useful wall to the group. Ritualist would be my second choice.

Turkey Baster · Feb 06, 2012, 05:48 AM // 05:48

@Scott Ware, I gave some cons for each of the professions I enjoy playing and want to know which would do the most damage in the simplest way, but also effectively.

@OChunx, I would never have the job of minion bombing, MM never appealed and mainly Curses did with Necromancers, but when played I really get stuck between two skills (SS and MoP). MoP is only on trigger and SS target is usually down before you get it is effectively used.

I agree with the Assassin comment, between shouts, protection enchantments, and skills like critical defenses and of course with proper insignias, defense shouldn't be a huge issue.

Ritualist has DwG, when paired with Great Dwarf Armor it's like running a PBAoE nuker with 80 armor. I don't mind spirits since they can be moved, but DwG @ 16 channeling is quite a blow to any mob and if you don't want to frontline you can always use a spirit army.

You could technically run an Assassin with 129 armor if I'm correct between "Stand Your Ground!", Insignias, and Great Dwarf Armor. Well over 100 even without the shout, which is plenty of armor.

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 06, 2012, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Assassin has the biggest non-situational DPS. Whereas others rely on mobs being balled, assassin can rush in and spike down a target in one combo

Dzjudz · Feb 06, 2012, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Definitely sin with Jagged Strike + Fox Fangs + Death Blossom + Splinter Weapon

_Aphotic_ · Feb 06, 2012, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Assassin have the highest single target DPS.

(Scroll down to tl;dr)

Still extremely situational. Very rarely do you come across a mob while with a 7 hero that you can pull a full assassin chain on (this is considering real, 5+ skill dagger chains; 3 doesn't count, especially DB-esque chains, as that isn't a true single-target spike). If you are able to pull a full assassin chain on a monster on a mob, either:
A) You're just having fun.
B) You're heroes suck [at dealing damage].
C) You're not going to be able pull of that chain twice in the same battle.
D) The monster is going to die before you finish the attack chain, and you'll be uselessly auto attacking for the rest of the fight.

That aside, yeah, Assassins have the highest single-target spike DPS.
Overall Single Target DPS = Warrior/Dervish; no long recharges; auto attacking deals a fair amount of damage.
Earth Shaker Warrior is great for it's setting up for AoE attacks/defensive uses, but if you really want Hammer Damage in PvE, Dwarven Battle Stance is where it really shines (stack a GDW and some + damage enchants on him as well)

Elementalist is the least situational. They still do the same amount of damage to a balled mob as they would a single target- and those numbers are pretty big.
---------------------

Back on topic,
Your question is very, very broad...

It's still extremely situational. I would bet on overall, Elementalists in PvE. Taking into mind in PvE:
a) What if stuff isn't dying? Necromancer doesn't have energy.
b) What if stuff doesn't cast spells? Mesmers have no energy.
c) What if stuff has lots of enchantment removal? Elementalists have no energy.
d) What if stuff blocks a lot? Assassin's have no energy nor damage. (Asuran Scan is the be-all-end-all of all melee woes, but considering the majority of the PvE community hardly considers it's existence...)

From the above mentioned list, A), B) and C) are the least likely cases. (I ignore caster shutdown, because you should have adequate removal on your heroes).

Why Elementalist overall? See below.

Why not Necromancer?
Necromancers have the best energy management in the game. It's inherent, and they very rarely have to bring any additional skills to compensate for a lack of energy . A majority of their damage is either armor ignoring, or health degeneration (the latter being pretty useless in PvE), with cold damage being a minority of skills (Icy Veins is pretty meta, and Toxic Chill can be used well as a Discord replacement, but that's besides the point). Because the majority of their damage comes from Armor Ignoring sources, the numbers tallied in to the skill of it's unconditional damage such as any Blood Magic are much, much lower than an Elementalist investing a similar amount of attribute points into it's own primary attributes.

However, within a 7 hero team, Necromancers would probably be the most damaging, as their conditional damage such as Discord, Spiteful Spirit are easily helped by the utility and potential skills you can put on 7 heroes. As opposed to an Elementalist who can apply forms of Cracked Ayrmor on their foes and still be unable to output the same conditional DPS.

All this aside, also consider lower-end areas/NM, where armor-ignoring damage deals far less damage than an Elementalist with a simple nuke.
---

While this argument conveys in a somewhat circle, Elementalists can relay their damage without having to rely on their fellow heroes. All energy management is self-maintainable from enchantments (Necromancers have to rely on their team mates to kill), but the big numbers work both ways for both classes. You can't just go onto the Isle of the Nameless and say, "Bam, Elementalist deals more damage against the Master of Damage," and call that a real situation in PvE. In PvE, primarily Hard Mode, monsters have far more armor (even with the update, it's still pretty large), and an even larger health pool.

tl;dr:
For general PvE:
-Necromancers with a 7 hero team/conditionally.
-Elementalists overall/unconditionally.
-Mesmers are out of the equation due to a majority of their skills are shutdown. Their direct damage consists only of Energy Burn and Enererygy Surge, great for spiking, but not much else. (Ineptitude/it's non-elite counter parts are extremely strong, I'll give them that much)
-Assassins have the greatest spike potential, but such a spike is unneeded/impractical/for funzies while with 7 heroes. Just stick with the meta DB chains (playing a raw Dervish is actually far stronger than spamming this chain...).
-All other "Frontline-esque" classes have the potential to surpass the damage of their caster counterparts, but the casters can do it in larger packets and in a shorter amount of time.
-Splinter Weapon is overpowered and can be used for huge dps on any class. Just carry a spear on yourself or a hero. Calling targets helps too.
-If you play anything relying on a martial weapon, Asuran Scan is your very, very best friend. Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, people might say crap about it. Try it yourself before you judge please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkey Baster

You could technically run an Assassin with 129 armor if I'm correct between "Stand Your Ground!", Insignias, and Great Dwarf Armor. Well over 100 even without the shout, which is plenty of armor.

'

No. SYG! doesn't bypass/stack with the cap (IAU does). Whatever your bonus is from GDA (based on your Dwarven Rank) + your equipped insignias, will be your new armor total. Which is all you really need. Protective Spirit/ST Defensive Rit/Imbagons are your friends... Guild Wars is a team game... Believe in your heroes, or your friends, at the very least.

Vampire of Bone · Feb 06, 2012, 07:59 AM // 07:59

In a 7 hero team an assassin is definately the highests dps. As long as you take splinter and strength of honor and the normal dagger chain you make things explode.
Although you are quite squishy just hang back a liiiittttle bit and let the minion wall go in first, melee tend to ball up on this anyway letting you take them down quickly.

Blackbirdx61 · Feb 06, 2012, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Admittedly I'm still pretty much a Noob, but I notice your not mentioning Any Sort of
Dual Class here; I've gotten very good results with my R/Elm, and would think you would get even better results with an W/Elm,

Your armor would allow you to hang tough on the front line, your spells are harder or impossible to dodge, and time to target is minimal. It would definitely encourage the Mobs to Ball up on your, or allow you to walk up to a ball; there are good Air Interruption spells for mess with other spell casters and powerful DPS spells like Lava Font and Phoenix at your disposal. Even if you only invest in Minor Energy Glyph, Lava Font, Ltng Javelin I believe you've got a warrior that could really put a hurt on most Mobs; without costly high energy or Elite Skills.

Turkey Baster · Feb 06, 2012, 05:00 PM // 17:00

GDA + Insginia is plenty for anyone when relying on heroes. I like to run markway if I play a Necromancer in a 7H team simply because it's unique to dealing damage compared to any other profession, but I feel like that's the only build I'll ever want to run. I know how powerful Necromancers are and where they lack. And SS is pretty much the staple of Necromancers and what they're known for, but it's use is niche.

Not too concerned with a full 5 skill Assassin chain as you call it. At most, I'd run 4 any time and save a slot for GDA, Critical Eye + Agility/Defenses, WoTA, maybe Death's Charge or SY! for laughs.

Elementalists while dealing as much damage as they, probably less in HM. I think might have issues with enchantment stripping unless running an AP build. That gets kind of lame.

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 06, 2012, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Aphotic_

(Scroll down to tl;dr)

Still extremely situational. Very rarely do you come across a mob while with a 7 hero that you can pull a full assassin chain on (this is considering real, 5+ skill dagger chains; 3 doesn't count, especially DB-esque chains, as that isn't a true single-target spike). If you are able to pull a full assassin chain on a monster on a mob, either:
A) You're just having fun.
B) You're heroes suck [at dealing damage].
C) You're not going to be able pull of that chain twice in the same battle.
D) The monster is going to die before you finish the attack chain, and you'll be uselessly auto attacking for the rest of the fight.

Certainly less situational than balling mobs. I can pull of a full Jagged>Fox>DB combo regularly in normal mode (still early-mid NF campaign.), mostly because I shadow step and prioritize targets. Shadow stepping in means all eyes are on me, I get spiked a bit and then soon protted by my heroes. Certainly risky, I expect, for later in the campaign and hard mode but I figure at that point, shadow stepping will be less necessary.

Although, the OP asked for most player DPS in a hero setting, and though earthshaker has high utility in keeping a mob balled, I hardly think it has the most DPS. Also highly seems like OP doesn't want reliance on mobs being balled, and while assassin damage does increase when DB hits a lot of enemies, it's not at all necessary.

Turkey Baster · Feb 06, 2012, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Axel is right, balling mobs or waiting for them takes extra time to do so. I was asking on a pew pew everything is blowing up basis with no thought.

Spiritz · Feb 06, 2012, 08:47 PM // 20:47

On a funny note - if you can add fallback to a hero and get them to cast it just as minions catch up , ive done several vq with it that way and its funny to see 11+ minions suddenly charge into battle

mage767 · Feb 06, 2012, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Although sins come highest in DPS, playing war is more fun.

War = strong dependable front-liner == can easily take up to 5 seconds of torture in HM from 5+ enemies without any issues,

So, to combine this high dependability with awesome DPS, we use:

1. 100 Blades (elite), increasing points of contact per foe and all close-by foes.
2. Ebon Battle Standard of Honor (EbSoH), increasing damage per contact up to the max level of this pve skill
3. Strength of Honor (applied from your smiter nec/monk hero, friend), increasing damage per contact up to level of smiting invested.
4. Mark of pain (micro'd from your nec hero - you can also click MOP on hero and then attack ping the target of choice).
5. Splinter weapon (from your channel rit/nec)
6. Flail, increasing attack speed applying all of the above more quickly

On top of all this, bring:
1. Save yourselves, aka "THIS IS SPARTA!"
2. Sun&Moon Slash
3. Whirling Attack
4. Zealous sword w/armor spec

Basically, beat the shit out of your enemies within microseconds. If this doesn't sound like fun, then what is??

Skyy High · Feb 06, 2012, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Aphotic_

-Mesmers are out of the equation due to a majority of their skills are shutdown. Their direct damage consists only of Energy Burn and Enererygy Surge, great for spiking, but not much else. (Ineptitude/it's non-elite counter parts are extremely strong, I'll give them that much)

Have you....looked at the mesmer's skill set in the past year?

Relyk · Feb 07, 2012, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Assassin have highest single target DPS. Mesmers have highest single target DPS for a caster. Ritualists technically have the highest DPS with Painful Bond.

It's more complicated if the damage isn't over an arbitrary period of time. You can make various arguments for spiking or damage over a short period of time for a given set of conditions.

Mookz · Feb 07, 2012, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Definitely sin with Jagged Strike + Fox Fangs + Death Blossom + Splinter Weapon

This popped in to my head as well right away. Get a full radiant/blessed set, learn how to ball mobs, and go 12+1+1(3) Dagger Mastery and 12 Crit, have a Rt with Splinter Weapon in your group, and go to town.

Also, Mesmers are out of the equation due to their skills mostly being shut down? Lol, have you even looked at Mesmer skills? They shut down, and deal huge damage... to everyone adjacent. And on short cooldowns, just bring some e-management and you can spam them for the most part.

Feb 06, 2012, 04:12 AM // 04:12	#1
Turkey Baster Banned Join Date: Sep 2011	Most DPS Elementalist, Necromancer, Ritualist, or Assassin? Necromancer is usually conditional which means you need to target the hexed for or have them balled. Elementalist is alright. Assassin is frontline but still viable. Ritualist spirits seem like they lag and have issues, plus target what they want. I just don't enjoy Mesmers, Dervishes, or Monks (besides PvP). Rangers I don't see this besides Barrage even though I like them. Is a Earth Shaker Warrior more help then any of the first for professions listed above? This is most DPS as a human player in a 7H team Last edited by Turkey Baster; Feb 06, 2012 at 05:38 AM // 05:38..

Feb 06, 2012, 09:42 PM // 21:42	#15
mage767 Desert Nomad Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA Guild: LOVE Profession: Me/E	Although sins come highest in DPS, playing war is more fun. War = strong dependable front-liner == can easily take up to 5 seconds of torture in HM from 5+ enemies without any issues, So, to combine this high dependability with awesome DPS, we use: 1. 100 Blades (elite), increasing points of contact per foe and all close-by foes. 2. Ebon Battle Standard of Honor (EbSoH), increasing damage per contact up to the max level of this pve skill 3. Strength of Honor (applied from your smiter nec/monk hero, friend), increasing damage per contact up to level of smiting invested. 4. Mark of pain (micro'd from your nec hero - you can also click MOP on hero and then attack ping the target of choice). 5. Splinter weapon (from your channel rit/nec) 6. Flail, increasing attack speed applying all of the above more quickly On top of all this, bring: 1. Save yourselves, aka "THIS IS SPARTA!" 2. Sun&Moon Slash 3. Whirling Attack 4. Zealous sword w/armor spec Basically, beat the shit out of your enemies within microseconds. If this doesn't sound like fun, then what is?? Last edited by mage767; Feb 06, 2012 at 09:44 PM // 21:44..

Feb 06, 2012, 04:20 AM // 04:20	#2
yitjuan Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: GMT +8 Guild: redt Profession: Rt/	With proper balling a Warrior.

Feb 06, 2012, 04:49 AM // 04:49	#3
Scott Ware Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Profession: N/	Seems like you've eliminated everything but a War, so I guess I'm not really understanding the question.

Feb 06, 2012, 05:11 AM // 05:11	#4
OChunx Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2010 Profession: N/	Just between elementalist, necromancer, ritualist, and assassin, I would think that a minion bomber necromancer would have the most DPS in most PvE situations. Minions act as a giant wall (great defense) while still blowing up using death nova, and combined with putrid bile, you're doing tons of 100+ armor ignoring AoE damage. Minions themselves add some damage too. Ritualists in terms of combat mainly just use their spirits for support, doing pretty good single target damage and providing some added support effects (disenchantment, blinding). I think with a full 11 lvl 21 bone horrors tho, necro still does more single target damage. Elementalists did recently get buffed, although to be honest, I think necro and ritualist are still much more useful, even if the ritualist doesn't outright do more damage. Assassins seem like they would do the most DPS (especially with splinter weapon and death blossom) but are just too likely to be killed on the front line as well as providing few other defensive support for the team. Also, it might take some time to run, unless u shadowstep (minions take time to run-in too, but as a player minion master, that should pose less of a problem). Overall, I would recommend necromancer for all around massive AoE damage and providing a useful wall to the group. Ritualist would be my second choice.

Feb 06, 2012, 05:48 AM // 05:48	#5
Turkey Baster Banned Join Date: Sep 2011	@Scott Ware, I gave some cons for each of the professions I enjoy playing and want to know which would do the most damage in the simplest way, but also effectively. @OChunx, I would never have the job of minion bombing, MM never appealed and mainly Curses did with Necromancers, but when played I really get stuck between two skills (SS and MoP). MoP is only on trigger and SS target is usually down before you get it is effectively used. I agree with the Assassin comment, between shouts, protection enchantments, and skills like critical defenses and of course with proper insignias, defense shouldn't be a huge issue. Ritualist has DwG, when paired with Great Dwarf Armor it's like running a PBAoE nuker with 80 armor. I don't mind spirits since they can be moved, but DwG @ 16 channeling is quite a blow to any mob and if you don't want to frontline you can always use a spirit army. You could technically run an Assassin with 129 armor if I'm correct between "Stand Your Ground!", Insignias, and Great Dwarf Armor. Well over 100 even without the shout, which is plenty of armor.

Feb 06, 2012, 06:18 AM // 06:18	#6
Axel Zinfandel Desert Nomad Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeastern Ohio Guild: LaZy Profession: P/W	Assassin has the biggest non-situational DPS. Whereas others rely on mobs being balled, assassin can rush in and spike down a target in one combo

Feb 06, 2012, 07:19 AM // 07:19	#7
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	Definitely sin with Jagged Strike + Fox Fangs + Death Blossom + Splinter Weapon

Feb 06, 2012, 07:59 AM // 07:59	#9
Vampire of Bone Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2011 Guild: Desolation Lords [DL] Profession: N/	In a 7 hero team an assassin is definately the highests dps. As long as you take splinter and strength of honor and the normal dagger chain you make things explode. Although you are quite squishy just hang back a liiiittttle bit and let the minion wall go in first, melee tend to ball up on this anyway letting you take them down quickly.

Feb 06, 2012, 01:26 PM // 13:26	#10
Blackbirdx61 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Maryland. Guild: Costumed Aggression. : ) Profession: R/E	Admittedly I'm still pretty much a Noob, but I notice your not mentioning Any Sort of Dual Class here; I've gotten very good results with my R/Elm, and would think you would get even better results with an W/Elm, Your armor would allow you to hang tough on the front line, your spells are harder or impossible to dodge, and time to target is minimal. It would definitely encourage the Mobs to Ball up on your, or allow you to walk up to a ball; there are good Air Interruption spells for mess with other spell casters and powerful DPS spells like Lava Font and Phoenix at your disposal. Even if you only invest in Minor Energy Glyph, Lava Font, Ltng Javelin I believe you've got a warrior that could really put a hurt on most Mobs; without costly high energy or Elite Skills.

Feb 06, 2012, 05:00 PM // 17:00	#11
Turkey Baster Banned Join Date: Sep 2011	GDA + Insginia is plenty for anyone when relying on heroes. I like to run markway if I play a Necromancer in a 7H team simply because it's unique to dealing damage compared to any other profession, but I feel like that's the only build I'll ever want to run. I know how powerful Necromancers are and where they lack. And SS is pretty much the staple of Necromancers and what they're known for, but it's use is niche. Not too concerned with a full 5 skill Assassin chain as you call it. At most, I'd run 4 any time and save a slot for GDA, Critical Eye + Agility/Defenses, WoTA, maybe Death's Charge or SY! for laughs. Elementalists while dealing as much damage as they, probably less in HM. I think might have issues with enchantment stripping unless running an AP build. That gets kind of lame.

Feb 06, 2012, 08:43 PM // 20:43	#13
Turkey Baster Banned Join Date: Sep 2011	Axel is right, balling mobs or waiting for them takes extra time to do so. I was asking on a pew pew everything is blowing up basis with no thought.

Feb 06, 2012, 08:47 PM // 20:47	#14
Spiritz Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2007 Guild: DMFC	On a funny note - if you can add fallback to a hero and get them to cast it just as minions catch up , ive done several vq with it that way and its funny to see 11+ minions suddenly charge into battle

Feb 07, 2012, 09:43 AM // 09:43	#17
Relyk Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2008 Profession: W/	Assassin have highest single target DPS. Mesmers have highest single target DPS for a caster. Ritualists technically have the highest DPS with Painful Bond. It's more complicated if the damage isn't over an arbitrary period of time. You can make various arguments for spiking or damage over a short period of time for a given set of conditions.